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I was wondering if there is any information or research on whether or not BWE is habit forming (can't find it in the forums).
What I was wondering is if, for example, a person used the machine for mild insomnia and found it to be good, would if form a habit so that the person may ulitmately not be able to sleep without it?
I imagine you could overcome it with an hypnotic suggestion, but without?
Hi,
AV stimulation, of itself, is not addictive.
One of the results of attaining certain brainwave states, however, is the release of various neurotransmitters, two of which, seratonin and dopamine, are particularly associated with feeling good and the pleasure/reward response. In a person who is naturally low in these (such as a person with depression) it is possible that they may become "addicted" to feeling "better".
AVS is also quite a compelling experience for some (like myself) who really enjoy exploring the depths of perception and cognition and can result in disproportionate amounts of time spent wired up.
As for sleep, if a person has trouble sleeping and they are helped by AVS, then it may be that they will continue to benefit from AVS. It may well be that when AVS is withdrawn they will, indeed, have difficulty sleeping again. AVS is cumulative - the changes to bloodflow and the general plasticity of the brain do become persistent - so for some, the need for AVS may diminish. Also, sleep difficulty can itself become a pattern and a few good nights sleep may be all that's required to get things working nicely on their own.
Cheers,
Craig
Hello Lucifer,
Yes, it is habit forming but not in the same way as addiction. Addiction is based on the belief that you need an "illusionary" something in order to function. Anything that you actually **need** to function like air, water and food are necessary to function but they would not be considered an addictive substance or act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
With BWE, our brains already produce frequencies, so the machine isn't creating the frequencies it is merely pointing the frequencies in a different direction. BWE is a method used to help train the brain to use more or less of a group of frequencies at certain times that coincide with the body's natural rhythms such as theta/delta and sleep. Other states of mind also correspond with groups of rhythms but sometimes, the brain (for many reasons) favors a group of frequencies and tends to stay there too long, causing other problems. For example, people with ADD tend to have Theta as a dominant frequency and that creates a concentration problem and so Beta/SMR (which is the "right" frequency for awake and thinking) is encouraged to become stronger through training (entrainment).
Belief can create an "addiction" of sorts in that if a person believes that s/he can not sleep without the machine, then they may not be able to sleep without the machine. It isn't the machine that caused the problem, it was the person's belief.Quote:
What I was wondering is if, for example, a person used the machine for mild insomnia and found it to be good, would if form a habit so that the person may ultimately not be able to sleep without it?
That's one way and the other way is to avoid setting up that belief in the first place. By asking questions, like you are doing, and learning a bit about how the brain works and why you gain understanding over the tools of change - which then work for you according to your will.Quote:
I imagine you could overcome it with an hypnotic suggestion, but without?
M.
Just to clarify - when serotonin is high, dopamine is lowered. High dopamine sets off feelings of desire & raised serotonin sets off signals of satisfaction. For example, when your body is in need of refueling, your dopamine levels rise which creates a feeling of hunger. You start thinking about food and that thought almost consumes you as it's all you think about is how hungry you are and how good (pick a food) would taste. Once you eat, your serotonin levels rise and so does your feeling of satisfaction (you no longer feel hungry) and your dopamine levels lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigT
AVS, in particular, an Alpha state (8-11hz) is the state where serotonin is released. That being the case, dopamine would be surpressed.
What happens in an addiction is your brain makes a mistake about the importance to survival linked with a substance. So your dopamine levels rise inappropriately signaling that you need something. That is why antidepressants (SSRIs) work well with addiction recovery is because they help raise the level of serotonin, that also helps lower the dopamine and so cravings will not be as bad. The next thing that happens in a good addiction recovery program is that you work on changing that faulty program in your brain and that is by understanding the biology of addiction as well as the psychology of belief and dysfunctional and functional behavior.
Just thought I'd toss in this quote from Wikipedia...
"Dopamine is commonly associated with the pleasure system of the brain, providing feelings of enjoyment and reinforcement to motivate a person proactively to perform certain activities. Dopamine is released (particularly in areas such as the nucleus accumbens and prefrontal cortex) by naturally rewarding experiences such as food, sex, drugs, and neutral stimuli that become associated with them. Recent studies indicate that aggression may also stimulate the release of dopamine in this way. This theory is often discussed in terms of drugs such as cocaine, nicotine, and amphetamines, which directly or indirectly lead to an increase of dopamine in the mesolimbic reward pathway of the brain, and in relation to neurobiological theories of chemical addiction, arguing that this dopamine pathway is pathologically altered in addicted persons."
Which covers the reasons I mentioned dopamine in my earlier post.
Cheers,
Craig
It is an important factor in addictions and it is related to serotonin, which was why I thought you mentioned it. My explanation was more to give clarification to how dopamine and serotonin work together.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigT
So, we are on the same page. :)
M.
Marisa/Craig,
Very interesting stuff here. Thanks.
Personally, I always have had trouble getting, and staying asleep. I have found the sleep programs on my Proteus and Procyon to be very effective in getting to sleep and also very useful if I wake up and have trouble getting to sleep again.
I have to admit, this is a bit habit forming and I probably use them more often (+50% of the time) than I really need to. However, I don't really see much downside it this as the benefits are very positive, and a heck of a lot healthier than using medication in my opinion.
Cheers,
TomC
Hey Tom,
This gets me thinking ... When is a routine a habit and when is a habit an addiction and is addiction to something benign a bad thing? Like if you get into the habit of brushing your teeth before you go to bed and feel quite uncomfortable if you go to bed without brushing your teeth ... are you addicted to brushing your teeth?Quote:
Originally Posted by TomC
There is also the entrainment factor of using an AVS machine to help sleep. It can take up-wards of 30 sessions to entrain your brain to naturally go into that state when desired. Essentially after, lets say 30 sessions, a month of continuous use, you should be able to lie down and imagine the sound of the machine and the rhythm of the lights and lull yourself to sleep that way - because the brain has been entrained to do so. Hmmm that makes me think that it's actually a good thing to get into the habit of using an AVS machine especially if you are trying to make a significant change (such as stress reduction, improved concentration etc.).
Entrainment itself could be considered a habit.
:D M.
Thanks everyone, that's very helpful.
I've never had what I'd call sleep problems, I just wake up 2-3 times per night and have been doing it for over 30 years. It seems, instead of going into light sleep after the 90 minute cycle, I wake up. (I only found this out in the last few days as my rule has always been to never look at the clock but I thought I'd confim it for a week.)
I didn't want to create a problem where there was "no" problem but I still want to see if BWE can change things as an experiment.
I'm okay with using it every night and I don't care about doing it forever, I just didn't want to feel compelled to, say, take it with me on holiday (even though I probably will if it works as I expect).
I've always wanted to experiment with (self) mind control but failed miserably at conventional self hypnosis. On the other hand I have relatives with migranes, chronic back pain, depression and ADHD so I thought I'd be the guinea pig, if it works with me, it may help them.
Hi Lucifer,
I'm guessing that you failed at self-hypnosis because you had inadequate instruction. There is a way to use language and state of mind for self hypnosis and it's usually not taught in books. Having said that, a really good book that gives great insight into the subject (if you can ignore some of the spiritual stuff) is The Power of Your Subconscious Mind by Joseph Murphy. It was initially written back in the 60's (has had many reprints) and is available in paperback form. It is one of the most comprehensive books I've read on the subject (and I've read lots).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
One of the best ways to learn self-mind control is to study NLP. If you can afford it, taking the Practitioner's certification is absolutely worth while. If money is an issue, there are books and DVDs. The process will be slower but it is do-able. It can be a difficult subject to master on your own and if you go that route, you may want to read some general books (listed below) before you tackle the hard-core stuff.
Authors such as Tony Robbins and Dr. Wayne Dyer touch on some of the principles of NLP. These books are an easy read and contain a lot of useful information on how the mind works and how to work your mind. If you glance through them, it may not appear like there is good information or it may appear like it only applies to a certain group of people (executives, for example) however, the information is universal and useful.
If you are more esoterically inclined, you can learn some of the principles through Robert Anton Wilson, Carlos Castaneda, Israel Regardie and Crowley (if you know what to look for). Stay away from Anton LeVey's material because it's faulty.
Sorry ... went on a tangent. It excites me when someone mentions an interest in learning mental martial arts.
:icon_twisted: (a little devil smiley for you Lucifer) :cheers:
M.
My book is called Self Hypnosis by (I think Leceron or L Ceron) a 1977 version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
I think it was quite good (and I'm going to re-read it pending the arrival of my Procyon). It has a fairly good induction ("you can record to a record in most department stores" Ha! Ha!).
My problem was I couldn't stop mind chatter interrupting my attempts. I lay there trying to relax and spending more time analysing if I was relaxing than relaxing and thinking: "is my arm moving because I'm hypnotised or because I'm doing what the book says it should do?". In the end I always decided I was kidding myself. I'm a bit too analytical for unaided self hypnosis I think. And I fall into the category: "Tell my secrets to a psychiatrist? Not in this lifetime" so self hypnosis was the only thing I was willing to try.
For me, it's more exciting to start from a position of no problems to resolve so I can start focusing on "playing" immediately.
I intend to try every session and more and am counting the days. (I'm at day 4 and my order isn't approved yet but one more day to follow up time!)
Oh, and, I live in a special economic zone of China so unfortunately there's no chance of contacting an English speaking hypnotheratist even if I wanted to, I don't speak Chinese.
Self hypnosis work really saved my life at one point. I was really into that for many years in the past. (I should never have stopped. Distracted and lazy I guess. Odd how having a child changed my life profoundly not just because of the kid but because it completely refocused my interests and priorities for a dozen years.) I would just practice on a simple format, touching my forehead and lettting my body relax, making cassette tapes for myself and using them every single night and during the day if I had time. Eventually it was conditioned. Some people do less well with the arm-raising style inductions. Richard Bandler once said a lot of people had a lot of talk in their head and he'd discovered this secret mantra that helped deal with that. You just focus and relax and say to yourself, shutthefuckup, shutthefuckup, shutthefuckup, repeatedly, LOL! He's so hilarious. Anyway, there's something to that. I think a lot of refusal to drop the high-beta is because of fear of some kind, but it could also be (or these may be the same) just a brainwave state. I would think that a mind machine would really help in this regard as it's "help" at getting to fairly deep states hypnosis would be great in (haven't tried the two in combination yet). RC
Yeah, I used to keep telling my "little voice" to shut up and changed the subject but it always won the argument in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCairo
I think you gave up too soon. :icon_wink: Stopping the mind chatter takes practice. It involves becoming aware that your mind is chattering and directing your attention to the subject you wish to focus on. Every time the mind chatter starts, you can say something like "stop" and "pay attention to the work at hand" and then do that. At first you may be saying "stop" a lot but given time and practice, you should be able to redirect your thoughts as you wish. With the Procyon, you may want to direct your attention to the patterns in the light frames.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
Essentially all hypnosis is self hypnosis as we allow ourselves to engage in the process and whether someone else is telling the story or we are telling our selves the story - isn't relevant. It's easier with someone else just because at that point you just have to relax and listen to what they are saying.
I would recommend just starting with something simple like directing your focus to the sounds and light and when you find your mind starting the chatter, just redirect your focus to the lights and sound.
If you are working without the machine, focus on your breathing - in and out and the same applies, when the mind starts wandering, bring it back.
LOL Nah, you just gave yourself an acceptable excuse to stop trying. Here, a Hypnotherapist doesn't have to be a psychiatrist and the only secret that you really need to divulge is the goal that you want to attain through the session.Quote:
In the end I always decided I was kidding myself. I'm a bit too analytical for unaided self hypnosis I think. And I fall into the category: "Tell my secrets to a psychiatrist? Not in this lifetime" so self hypnosis was the only thing I was willing to try.
If you look at it all as play, then you can allow yourself to relax and just go with it.Quote:
For me, it's more exciting to start from a position of no problems to resolve so I can start focusing on "playing" immediately.
I intend to try every session and more and am counting the days. (I'm at day 4 and my order isn't approved yet but one more day to follow up time!)
There is a man named Richard on this forum who lives in Hong Kong and he's taken the NLP courses. You may want to talk to him.Quote:
Oh, and, I live in a special economic zone of China so unfortunately there's no chance of contacting an English speaking Hypnotherapist even if I wanted to, I don't speak Chinese.
M.
Hey RC,
I don't have kids but from observing friends and neighbors who have kids, I'd say that the little ones demand all of your attention. I don't know how you do it. Me, I'd likely go insane ...Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCairo
:laughing4: That is funny. I've watched a few of his DVDs and tapes and he really could branch off as a stand up comedian. Brilliant and quick mind on that guy.Quote:
Richard Bandler once said a lot of people had a lot of talk in their head and he'd discovered this secret mantra that helped deal with that. You just focus and relax and say to yourself, shutthefuckup, shutthefuckup, shutthefuckup, repeatedly, LOL! He's so hilarious.
I think many people are afraid that if they allow themselves to let go and get into that state, that they will lose control. Many think that a hypnotist has control over the subject, which they don't and a hypnotic state is just a natural state of inner reflection (which we do all the time anyway).Quote:
Anyway, there's something to that. I think a lot of refusal to drop the high-beta is because of fear of some kind, but it could also be (or these may be the same) just a brain wave state. I would think that a mind machine would really help in this regard as it's "help" at getting to fairly deep states hypnosis would be great in (haven't tried the two in combination yet). RC
Come to think of it, when Lucifer is engaged in that self chatter, in a way he is performing self hypnosis on himself as he is focused on inner and he is talking himself in and out of things. Hmmm :eusa_think:
M.
I'm in Macau.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
I'm really not big on interacting with people. There's really no way a hypnotist could get me to relax. (That's why I have no problem living where I don't know the language.)
Go to a dentist and I'm fine, I don't care, but go to a doctor for a checkup and they can't get a relaxed blood pressure reading. I get asked: Do you know how long you've had high blood pressure?". Response: "15 minutes."
But you are right, I think I give up too easily, "A typical", do it and move on or bored and walk away. For that reason I'm going to ignore self hypnosis and play around with the Procyon until I get used to it. Relaxing or sleeping will be a much easier goal. Once I cease to question it's operation then I can try hypnosis.
I don't really think hypnosis would reveal much to me, I know my hidden secrets, I just choose not to discuss them, even with myself.
It may sound odd but I often have more faith in machines than people.
Interesting.:eusa_think: I'm guessing that you don't want to change that so the what's behind it is irrelevant. Yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
I'm guessing you know why you are this way? It does have something to do with your perception of some people (not sure if it's all people). If you ever decide that you want to feel differently about this, the good news is that you can. I'm not saying that you should, I'm just saying that you could. After all, if you are happy the way things are ... there is no reason to change.Quote:
Go to a dentist and I'm fine, I don't care, but go to a doctor for a checkup and they can't get a relaxed blood pressure reading. I get asked: Do you know how long you've had high blood pressure?". Response: "15 minutes."
"Bored" is actually an excuse that makes it "okay" to give up. So basically, you give up and walk away. I'm guessing that you give up because you don't get instant results and perhaps reach a point of frustration where you are unable to say to yourself something like, "okay, that didn't work, maybe if I try this ...". Then again, it's not an easy task to master you mind. It's like trying to control a chariot pulled by wild horses. It's only a problem when those horses go where you don't want them to.Quote:
But you are right, I think I give up too easily, "A typical", do it and move on or bored and walk away.
What do you mean by "question its operation"? Are the questions to do with the technical aspects or the mind aspects?Quote:
For that reason I'm going to ignore self hypnosis and play around with the Procyon until I get used to it. Relaxing or sleeping will be a much easier goal. Once I cease to question it's operation then I can try hypnosis.
I can appreciate that. One thing I want to make you aware of is that the "theta" state basically opens the door to your unconscious and it may bring forward things you are wanting to repress. It doesn't happen to everyone but it can happen. Then again maybe you are ready to make peace with yourself and accept that past for what it is .. the past.Quote:
I don't really think hypnosis would reveal much to me, I know my hidden secrets, I just choose not to discuss them, even with myself.
It's not necessary to know your secrets and if you have control over them so that they can not interfere with your happiness, then hey, it appears you have mastered some of the mind control stuff. In fact, you probably have many skills in this area that you are not aware of. Cool eh.
Not at all. Some people can really suck. :icon_pirat:Quote:
It may sound odd but I often have more faith in machines than people.
BTW, the name "Lucifer" means "Bringer of Light" or "Light Bearer". Interesting that you would pick a name that represents a being that was the best and the brightest who walked away from an easier life (being an Archangel) and chose to become the "tester" (and viewed as evil by others).
M.
Sorry for the delay in replying, I had a relative in remission from cancer who took ill again. To cut the story short, went through the whole thing and now she’s buried.
I have to concede not having to commit time to a stack of friends is something I wouldn’t part with.Quote:
Marisa: Interesting. I'm guessing that you don't want to change that so the what's behind it is irrelevant. Yes?
Always been introverted and a loner. Part of it is being the youngest child. The mid child would sooner hang out with the older child than the younger child.Quote:
Marisa: I'm guessing you know why you are this way? It does have something to do with your perception of some people (not sure if it's all people). If you ever decide that you want to feel differently about this, the good news is that you can. I'm not saying that you should, I'm just saying that you could. After all, if you are happy the way things are ... there is no reason to change.
Not really interested in changing, I’ve seen what being lonely can be like and I’d rather be able to be alone and not lonely.
Yes, I’m more of a that didn’t work try something completely different person. I struggle to pursue things that fail.Quote:
Marisa: "Bored" is actually an excuse that makes it "okay" to give up. So basically, you give up and walk away. I'm guessing that you give up because you don't get instant results and perhaps reach a point of frustration where you are unable to say to yourself something like, "okay, that didn't work, maybe if I try this ...". Then again, it's not an easy task to master you mind. It's like trying to control a chariot pulled by wild horses. It's only a problem when those horses go where you don't want them to.
I’ve been in work projects where I have realised they won’t work so I’ve lost all enthusiasm while the others are still pressing on. To be honest, in that situation, I haven’t been proved wrong yet.
Mind. I’ll see how effective the Procyon is before I get excited about self hypnosis.Quote:
Marisa: What do you mean by "question its operation"? Are the questions to do with the technical aspects or the mind aspects?
I think there are some things I would like to change, hence self hypnosis, but I know them already. I’m not expecting to find them out first. Mind you, of course, as you say, there could be repressed memories attached to the things I claim to “know” which are the actual cause.Quote:
Marisa:I can appreciate that. One thing I want to make you aware of is that the "theta" state basically opens the door to your unconscious and it may bring forward things you are wanting to repress. It doesn't happen to everyone but it can happen. Then again maybe you are ready to make peace with yourself and accept that past for what it is .. the past.
It's not necessary to know your secrets and if you have control over them so that they can not interfere with your happiness, then hey, it appears you have mastered some of the mind control stuff. In fact, you probably have many skills in this area that you are not aware of. Cool eh.
Yes, machines usually don’t lie so if the consensus is they work it’s likely it’s true.Quote:
Marisa: Not at all. Some people can really suck.
If the user name “Lucifer” is taken I normally use “Lightbearer” or the Chinese demon “Mogwai.”Quote:
Marisa: BTW, the name "Lucifer" means "Bringer of Light" or "Light Bearer". Interesting that you would pick a name that represents a being that was the best and the brightest who walked away from an easier life (being an Archangel) and chose to become the "tester" (and viewed as evil by others). M.
Well I have my Procyon now and have no adverse effects. I can see it will take time but it appears to work. It’s a little different than I thought. I never expected it to do what it does and I don’t know if other “early” users find the same. So far (3 sessions) it’s worked mentally but not physically i.e. the relax programme relaxed my brain not body. The rejuvenation programme didn’t stop my eyes from feeling droopy but my brain was alert and there was no way would have been able to sleep.
I can see, until I get accustomed to using the machine, the excitement of “does it work” will override the ability for it to relax me properly (I've been mentally monitoring the effects as the session runs). And getting used to relaxing and just watching the light without looking around or squeezing the eyes will take a few sessions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
I am sorry for your loss. I hope your relative's suffering was brief. How are you doing with what you went through? It's hard to be unaffected in one way or another by such circumstances.
I can appreciate that. :)Quote:
I have to concede not having to commit time to a stack of friends is something I wouldn?t part with.
I choose to be a loner most of the time. Socializing takes energy and with the Fibromyalgia - I have to consider carefully how I use the energy I have. There are usually more things to do and that I want to do than what I can do. We all have our obstacles. :icon_wink:Quote:
Always been introverted and a loner. Part of it is being the youngest child. The mid child would sooner hang out with the older child than the younger child.
I think "lonely" is a state of mind that has more to do with unfulfilled expectations than the number of people around. I think "alone" without the "lonely" is good.Quote:
Not really interested in changing, I?ve seen what being lonely can be like and I?d rather be able to be alone and not lonely.
I agree with you here that if you have a desired outcome and you try one thing and it doesn't work, to try something else until you hit the right combo. Sometimes the method we choose is fine but we lack technique, so in that case, maybe it's prudent to turn to something else until we have acquired the skills we need to do the actionQuote:
Yes, I?m more of a that didn?t work try something completely different person. I struggle to pursue things that fail.
I agree with you that it's redundant to repeat the same process if you are not getting results. However - if you are not doing the process correctly, then you would do yourself a disservice to give up. For example, let's say you are learning martial arts and you are trying to learn a technique. You will get that technique wrong (likely) a few times before you get it right and in this case it would be good to continue to practice the same moves. If you are teaching yourself and are not getting the technique after several tries than it would make sense to change your method of being taught (buy a different DVD, get coaching etc.).
In the end, if the goal is really something you want badly, then it's important to keep trying to achieve it and to be flexible, open to alternatives in how to achieve the goal.
Quote:
I?ve been in work projects where I have realized they won?t work so I?ve lost all enthusiasm while the others are still pressing on. To be honest, in that situation, I haven?t been proved wrong yet.
It's a bit difficult for me to comment on something that is this vague. I can think of circumstances and examples that support and refute both sides of this argument.:eusa_think:
I hope you enjoy the process. What's really fun to do (okay not everything has to have a therapeutic goal) is select Program 49 and just use the light frames and plug your headphones into some music you love and sit back and enjoy the light show. :banana:Quote:
Mind. I?ll see how effective the Procyon is before I get excited about self hypnosis.
I don't know you so I can't assume anything, I just though I'd give you a "heads up" in case there are any surprises. Just in case you get in trouble and need a quick strategy to get you into a better state - you bring yourself into the present by changing your body position (if you were sitting, stand up, look up and tell your self things about the present that are okay. Example: At this moment here and now I am safe. The past is over (if it's a past memory). It is history and only exists in my memory. What is real is right now, this very moment, this very second. I can feel my feet on the floor ... I can see the color of ... etc. Let me know if you need more details on changing states.Quote:
I think there are some things I would like to change, hence self hypnosis, but I know them already. I?m not expecting to find them out first. Mind you, of course, as you say, there could be repressed memories attached to the things I claim to ?know? which are the actual cause.
I'm guessing you have experienced betrayal? Kind of a dumb question because we all have experienced having our feelings hurt by someone. Some people manage to get their hearts ripped out and handed to them by their "friends" ... that's always a fun time. LOL Dogs .... now dogs make excellent friends ... crows also (cuz they are smart).Quote:
Yes, machines usually don?t lie so if the consensus is they work it?s likely it?s true.
Who is could kick bigger ass - Mogwai or Lucifer? I apologize for my comment if you are religious and my comment insulted you.Quote:
If the user name ?Lucifer? is taken I normally use ?Light bearer? or the Chinese demon ?Mogwai.?
What sessions are you using?Quote:
Well I have my Procyon now and have no adverse effects. I can see it will take time but it appears to work. It?s a little different than I thought. I never expected it to do what it does and I don?t know if other ?early? users find the same. So far (3 sessions) it?s worked mentally but not physically i.e. the relax programme relaxed my brain not body. The rejuvenation programme didn?t stop my eyes from feeling droopy but my brain was alert and there was no way would have been able to sleep.
Once you finish analyzing it all, then allow your self to sit back and enjoy the journey - avoid thinking about relaxing, just enjoy the lights and see what happens when you squeeze your eyes tight or barely shut. See what happens if you look up , sideways or down .... do you get any different affects. Keep you eyes closed always though. The less you think about what stresses you , the more you will be able to think about relaxes you .... and the magick key is: The mind always goes towards the situation you are thinking about so it's always important to think about what you want instead of what you don't want or want to avoid.Quote:
I can see, until I get accustomed to using the machine, the excitement of ?does it work? will override the ability for it to relax me properly (I've been mentally monitoring the effects as the session runs). And getting used to relaxing and just watching the light without looking around or squeezing the eyes will take a few sessions.
M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
I am sorry for your loss. I hope your relative's suffering was brief. How are you doing with what you went through? It's hard to be unaffected in one way or another by such circumstances.
I can appreciate that. :)Quote:
I have to concede not having to commit time to a stack of friends is something I wouldn?t part with.
I choose to be a loner most of the time. Socializing takes energy and with the Fibromyalgia - I have to consider carefully how I use the energy I have. There are usually more things to do and that I want to do than what I can do. We all have our obstacles. :icon_wink:Quote:
Always been introverted and a loner. Part of it is being the youngest child. The mid child would sooner hang out with the older child than the younger child.
I think "lonely" is a state of mind that has more to do with unfulfilled expectations than the number of people around. I think "alone" without the "lonely" is good.Quote:
Not really interested in changing, I?ve seen what being lonely can be like and I?d rather be able to be alone and not lonely.
I agree with you here that if you have a desired outcome and you try one thing and it doesn't work, to try something else until you hit the right combo. Sometimes the method we choose is fine but we lack technique, so in that case, maybe it's prudent to turn to something else until we have acquired the skills we need to do the actionQuote:
Yes, I?m more of a that didn?t work try something completely different person. I struggle to pursue things that fail.
I agree with you that it's redundant to repeat the same process if you are not getting results. However - if you are not doing the process correctly, then you would do yourself a disservice to give up. For example, let's say you are learning martial arts and you are trying to learn a technique. You will get that technique wrong (likely) a few times before you get it right and in this case it would be good to continue to practice the same moves. If you are teaching yourself and are not getting the technique after several tries than it would make sense to change your method of being taught (buy a different DVD, get coaching etc.).
In the end, if the goal is really something you want badly, then it's important to keep trying to achieve it and to be flexible, open to alternatives in how to achieve the goal.
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I?ve been in work projects where I have realized they won?t work so I?ve lost all enthusiasm while the others are still pressing on. To be honest, in that situation, I haven?t been proved wrong yet.
It's a bit difficult for me to comment on something that is this vague. I can think of circumstances and examples that support and refute both sides of this argument.:eusa_think:
I hope you enjoy the process. What's really fun to do (okay not everything has to have a therapeutic goal) is select Program 49 and just use the light frames and plug your headphones into some music you love and sit back and enjoy the light show. :banana:Quote:
Mind. I?ll see how effective the Procyon is before I get excited about self hypnosis.
I don't know you so I can't assume anything, I just though I'd give you a "heads up" in case there are any surprises. Just in case you get in trouble and need a quick strategy to get you into a better state - you bring yourself into the present by changing your body position (if you were sitting, stand up, look up and tell your self things about the present that are okay. Example: At this moment here and now I am safe. The past is over (if it's a past memory). It is history and only exists in my memory. What is real is right now, this very moment, this very second. I can feel my feet on the floor ... I can see the color of ... etc. Let me know if you need more details on changing states.Quote:
I think there are some things I would like to change, hence self hypnosis, but I know them already. I?m not expecting to find them out first. Mind you, of course, as you say, there could be repressed memories attached to the things I claim to ?know? which are the actual cause.
I'm guessing you have experienced betrayal? Kind of a dumb question because we all have experienced having our feelings hurt by someone. Some people manage to get their hearts ripped out and handed to them by their "friends" ... that's always a fun time. LOL Dogs .... now dogs make excellent friends ... crows also (cuz they are smart).Quote:
Yes, machines usually don?t lie so if the consensus is they work it?s likely it?s true.
Who is could kick bigger ass - Mogwai or Lucifer? I apologize for my comment if you are religious and my comment insulted you.Quote:
If the user name ?Lucifer? is taken I normally use ?Light bearer? or the Chinese demon ?Mogwai.?
What sessions are you using?Quote:
Well I have my Procyon now and have no adverse effects. I can see it will take time but it appears to work. It?s a little different than I thought. I never expected it to do what it does and I don?t know if other ?early? users find the same. So far (3 sessions) it?s worked mentally but not physically i.e. the relax programme relaxed my brain not body. The rejuvenation programme didn?t stop my eyes from feeling droopy but my brain was alert and there was no way would have been able to sleep.
Once you finish analyzing it all, then allow your self to sit back and enjoy the journey - avoid thinking about relaxing, just enjoy the lights and see what happens when you squeeze your eyes tight or barely shut. See what happens if you look up , sideways or down .... do you get any different affects. Keep you eyes closed always though. The less you think about what stresses you , the more you will be able to think about relaxes you .... and the magick key is: The mind always goes towards the situation you are thinking about so it's always important to think about what you want instead of what you don't want or want to avoid.Quote:
I can see, until I get accustomed to using the machine, the excitement of ?does it work? will override the ability for it to relax me properly (I've been mentally monitoring the effects as the session runs). And getting used to relaxing and just watching the light without looking around or squeezing the eyes will take a few sessions.
M.
18 months free of it then 2.5 weeks to die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
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Originally Posted by Marisa
I like my free (except for my wife of course) time.
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Originally Posted by Marisa
Well, at least it made me independent. Funnily enough both are afraid to cross me. I think I come across as explosive even though they never see it.
It’s good but people who get lonely won’t accept you can be alone without being lonely and try to address your problem of loneliness and arrange things for you. It’s where my famous phrase kicks in: “No, means no”. I always stick with it so people don’t keep asking me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
If I am certain something can work I will persue it until I solve it or reach the conclusion I can't solve it. Then I would write it down in case I decide I will challenge someone else to solve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
An example would be if you suggest a product and no one is interested so you present it a different way, there should be a limit to the number of ways you suggest before you get the message and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
But I also end projects quickly i.e. if my role is to create, I create and move on, I get bored with being involved in the making and distributing as it ends up watching instead of doing.
I seem to get effects even if they are not the expected ones. For example I’m not sure yet but I think I’m not as explosive over little things like the photocopier jamming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
I get the impression regression will be fairly illusive to me but I did get a flashback to my home at age 4 in Session 22 hypnogogia, just the bay windows looking out. But thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
What is a strange thing about me is I can't picture things especially faces e.g. I can give you a detailed description of my wife's face but I can't picture it. Same with "picture yourself going down the escalator", I know what it's like but I can't pull up an image of it so the going deeper and deeper is a bit of a problem..... Go figure!
No, I haven’t been betrayed that I can think of. It’s more the concept a machine can’t tell you what you want to hear, true or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
Dogs, I have 2 American Staffordshires, fabulous.
Atheist. (Hope it's not "scary") Mogwai is just a demon. There was an old movie, forgotten it's name (maybe Gremlins), about a cuddly creature that multiplied and became a killer if you got water on it, the Chinese man who handed it over in his shop called it "mogwai".Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
I used 15, 24 and 36 as the first 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
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Originally Posted by Marisa
I’m already at the stage of just observing. Fortunately at the moment I’m free of any obvious stress but the fact I explode (inside) over small things indicates I’m not totally calm.
Hello, Sorry about the delay in responding.
I can appreciate that. I also enjoy my alone/free time. I find I can get a whole lot more accomplished.Quote:
I like my free (except for my wife of course) time.
They saw you explode at the photocopier and backed away quietly? :icon_wink:Quote:
Well, at least it made me independent. Funnily enough both are afraid to cross me. I think I come across as explosive even though they never see it.
It is rather funny isn't it. I see this happen a lot with single people -- everyone else keeps trying to find them a mate when they are perfectly happy without one. If a person is more "social" than "solitary" then they likely won't be able to relate to the solitary person's lifestyle and vice versa. I think that many people forget that there are many ways to enjoy life than the ways they are most familiar with.Quote:
It?s good but people who get lonely won?t accept you can be alone without being lonely and try to address your problem of loneliness and arrange things for you. It?s where my famous phrase kicks in: ?No, means no?. I always stick with it so people don?t keep asking me.
That makes sense.Quote:
If I am certain something can work I will pursue it until I solve it or reach the conclusion I can't solve it. Then I would write it down in case I decide I will challenge someone else to solve it.
I'm guessing that they keep trying different approaches because somewhere inside of them, they are thinking that they didn't explain it right and so they try a different way. It takes a while for it to occur to them that you are just not interested. ... Or, they are sales people. LOLQuote:
An example would be if you suggest a product and no one is interested so you present it a different way, there should be a limit to the number of ways you suggest before you get the message and move on.
But I also end projects quickly i.e. if my role is to create, I create and move on, I get bored with being involved in the making and distributing as it ends up watching instead of doing.
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I seem to get effects even if they are not the expected ones. For example I?m not sure yet but I think I?m not as explosive over little things like the photocopier jamming.
That's good news. Photocopies jamming ...ARG! :BangHead:
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I get the impression regression will be fairly illusive to me but I did get a flashback to my home at age 4 in Session 22 hypnogogia, just the bay windows looking out. But thanks for the info.
What I make of this is that you may continue to get the odd flash of a memory by just using the machine and if you are not actively trying to do a regression, I doubt it would happen. I think this because .... (see after your next paragraph ...)
All of us have a lead (dominant) system in how we translate what we experience in the world. Some people are highly visual and they think in pictures, are able to picture things in their mind and their memory tends to work like a movie. Auditory/Auditory Digital people tend to talk to themselves a lot. Recalling something will happen as a result of them taking themselves back to an event and describing it to themselves. These people may respond better to affirmations or self hypnosis because they are already use to talking themselves in and out of states of mind. Kinesthetic people have quick and immediate access to their feelings. When they remember something, they tend to relive the event in their minds.Quote:
What is a strange thing about me is I can't picture things especially faces e.g. I can give you a detailed description of my wife's face but I can't picture it. Same with "picture yourself going down the escalator", I know what it's like but I can't pull up an image of it so the going deeper and deeper is a bit of a problem..... Go figure!
In case you are interested in this and/or want to see if your lead system is indeed auditory, I've attached a few documents to this message that you can read.
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No, I haven?t been betrayed that I can think of. It?s more the concept a machine can?t tell you what you want to hear, true or not.
... unless you program it to. :icon_wink:
That's a nice breed of dogs. I have a Belgian Tervuren.Quote:
Dogs, I have 2 American Staffordshires, fabulous.
[/QUOTE]
Atheist. (Hope it's not "scary") Mogwai is just a demon. There was an old movie, forgotten it's name (maybe Gremlins), about a cuddly creature that multiplied and became a killer if you got water on it, the Chinese man who handed it over in his shop called it "mogwai".[/quote]
Ahh okay, I remember that movie! It was Gremlins. I think that you also couldn't feed them after midnight.
It may help to do some introspection and pay attention to what you are saying to yourself about the event that you explode over. You may be able to change the outcome by changing your perspective on the event and you can do that by changing what you are saying to yourself.Quote:
I?m already at the stage of just observing. Fortunately at the moment I?m free of any obvious stress but the fact I explode (inside) over small things indicates I?m not totally calm.
For example: Machine jams. Typical response: "Stupid machine! I'm in a hurry and there it is jamming on me. Why does this always happen when I'm in a hurry." Resulting feelings: frustration
Alternative response: "Machine's jammed again ... well I guess it's time for a coffee break." or "Hmmm I wonder how fast I can fix it this time? Good thing I can fix it."
A perceptual shift will change your state of mind. If this interests you, then you can practice by taking anything that happens to you in a day and translate it in as many ways as possible. How many ways can you think about an event? How many different perspectives can you come up with? One perspective is from an observers position (if someone was watching you) or if you were outside your body watching you. Another is from a child's perspective, a dog's .... . It may sound dumb but it actually is an interesting experience because it gives you a working example of how we create our frames of mind (moods, responses, beliefs etc.) by our chosen perception of a thing or event. Make sense?
Marisa,
Wow slow responding.
Can you believe on one of the most agressive sites on the net I have around 4,000 posts!
Unfortunately I am in a period of resting from bloggging.
There's an error in the questionnaire: Question 7 has two "X"'s.
Strange that I can't picture things but I am visual 27, auditory 24 and audio digital 20. Mind you that fits with introverted.
What's curious is question 6., which I gave a 4 for appearance. To me that sounds shallow but the fact is I size people up by their looks (and I've been very accurate to date) so when I say appearence it was the way she looked at me and what I read in her face rather than beauty. If you saw her photo others would clearly disagree, but, for a time, she was the most beautiful girl in the world.
I couldn't be bothered talking with 99% of the models I see, to me they look hard and shallow and therefore basically ugly. Win a date with Claudia Schiffer? I'd be handing the prize to someone else as fast as I could, so "appearence" to me has a vastly different meaning to what others may perceive.
Here's something amusing, my father and I, many years ago, looked through a Miss world contestant book of around 90 faces. My father asked: "So who's your top 3?" We were identical in pick and order 1-3. It's pretty clear preference is genetic.